This is the first part of my interview with Howard Kaylan (Turtles, Flo & Eddie). It was a great interview and very little of it ended up in the book. I will put the entire interview up, but because it is long, I’ll do it in two or three postings… Hope you enjoy! Ciao, Crystal
HOWARD KAYLAN
5-24-04
HK: Let’s go back into the memory banks, pretty much. My time with Warren was pretty much in a stupor that we both fairly shared, I would have to say. But, it was indicative of the time we were living in and of the innocence with which we prowled the night. It was a strange time for me, in particular, with the success of The Turtles having taken my partner and myself and my band mates right out of high school, and having thrust us into the area of making hit records and on a tiny little label, White Whale, where soon Warren would find himself as a writer, we were the only act who was really selling any records. It was a miracle, in fact, that they had discovered us at all. And maybe that plays a part into this tiny little circle that we were in with the White Whale people.
What had happened was that my partner and myself and our little happy band were known as the Crossfires in high school. In 1964-5, we’re working at a place called Rev Foster’s Revelliere Club in Redondo Beach, CA. as a high school band playing teen shows on the weekend. These two guys came in to see us the night literally we had decided to break the band up. The reason we had done that was because we had been together as a band the entire time that high school had continued and now that high school was ending, our lead guitar player had a wife and a child, real responsibilities. Everyone was moving on in the real world and we realized that this teen club fantasy, Fri. Sat. existence, was never going to pay the bills. Also, that it was a total lie and that it had no real place in the real world as we were about to emerge. So, we put together a letter, a resignation letter. We were going to take it upstairs to the guy who ran the club, and on my way to the office I was literally stopped by two gentlemen who said, “We’re forming a record label. Would you like to be on it.” Well, it was dumb, but we figured we’d take the chance. We had nothing to lose. It was a very stupid thing. We went into the studio for them. We recorded three songs. One was a Bob Dylan song, “It Ain’t Me, Babe”, the other two were B-side songs that I had written. One was a very Kingston Trio kind of a folksy throw back to the days I had never experienced as a white, middle class easy going rich guy. And, the other was sort of a Kinks rock n roll tribute. The three songs were our first recording session. They released the Dylan song as a single on a label that didn’t even have a name when we recorded the thing. And it was a top 5 record. And we were thrown out onto the road with Dick Clark’s Caravan of Stars. This was six months out of high school. I had told my parents that I had quit UCLA and I had a full scholarship to be there. So they were panicked. But, I told them if I didn’t have a hit record in six months, I would go back to school. “It Ain’t Me Babe” came out four months after that, so I never had to go back to school. Nor did I have the desire to go back, and they were justifiably freaked out, but I bought them a color television and a trip to Hawaii and they seemed to calm down after that. Never gave me any problem.
Anyway, we had a couple of records in a row. It was a freaky fluky thing that we did. Then we kind of hit a brick wall. We had our first record, our second record. The third record we put out wasn’t a folk rock song. We didn’t want to do folk rock songs. We had nothing to protest. It was really, really stupid. In fact, they had submitted ‘Eve of Destruction’ to us as a follow up record to our first hit, “It Ain’t Me, Babe”, and they’d introduced us to P.F. Sloan and he played us this stuff and the record company people were all gung ho for it, and we listened to it and said “You’re nuts.” First of all this is a very, very strong anti-war song… we’re just little high school guys. We’ve got nothing to protest, man. We’re white, we’re middle class, we’re fat. I mean, you know, why am I singing about the inequities of the world? It doesn’t make sense. So, we turned down “Eve of Destruction”. We recorded it for an album, and later White Whale ended up releasing it after we departed the label in 1970, and it still made the Billboard Hot 100. Unbelievable. But, at the time, we didn’t want to put out anything that strong, so we decided to go lighter, and “Let Me Be” was a lighter follow up. “You Baby” the third follow up was lighter yet and took us into a good time music sort of a mold. We had seen the Lovin’ Spoonful in NY. We wanted to change our entire thing and sing about up stuff, not necessarily the down stuff we had been saddled with as a folk rock protest group. So, we told our label they had no choice but to listen to us because we were their only act, so we made unreasonable demands like little pricks, which we were, and eventually got to do the good time music that we wanted to for the third record. Came time for the fourth record, it was not so easy. We couldn’t get a hit. We released a song called, “We’ll Meet Again” regionally. The old Vera Lynn WWII song that The Byrds had had some success with and we didn’t know it. That’s how ignorant we were. So, we released our sort of razzle dazzle boogie woogie verson of it and it kind of tanked. And, we were in serious trouble.
Then we found… Actually we were called into the White Whale office, Lee Leseff and Ted Feigin, who were very, very scary dudes, I might add and had backgrounds in record distribution which was and is a very shady area of the record business, wherein you go in and you make deals with people to stock your records or to play your records or to sell your records based on whatever heavy handed techniques you could use, these guys were pros at it and so they started their own record company. At any rate, they were also signing singer/songwriters and they introduced us one afternoon to Warren. Warren was introduced to us as half of the song styling team of Lyme and Cybelle. We had no idea what these clowns were talking about. They played us Warren’s record, “Follow Me”, and we were very impressed. I mean, that was a great record. He sounded like an incredible songwriter. They asked us if we wanted to meet him, and we said, “Oh, absolutely. That would be really, really great.” So, we did. We met Warren and God he seemed like the nicest guy. He seemed wrong for their kind of show business. These guys were really hustlers. These guys hired people to buy people. I am not really sure about how we made the initial charts when our records first came out locally in Los Angeles on the smaller stations, KHJ, KRLA, KFWB, these were AM rocker stations when our first records came out. And, Lee and Ted were notorious for getting things played by just hanging out with DJs… being at Aldos downstairs at the right time…. Being at Musso and Frank’s at the right time. So, to see Warren who was a rather innocent child sort of being swept in by these guys… you know, I never really asked him what they were paying him, but I assumed they were paying him a salary as a songwriter. At any rate, one of the first things we heard from Warren was “Outside Chance” and it was an amazing Beatles song. We thought, my God, this is going to take us right out of that lighter than Spoonful frothy good time stuff we were doing, and maybe put us into an arena where we as a band could compete Beatle-wise with stronger groups. “Outside Chance” was a very Beatle-esque kind of record and we really thought we stood a chance with it. But, the public didn’t accept us for doing “Outside Chance”. They thought it was just too hard, I suppose. I still love the record. It’s one of my favorite Turtle records of all time. But, as I said, you know, it’s all about marketing. And The Turtles were never marketed to be that sort of a band.
I felt bad, really, that we couldn’t have a hit with “Outside Chance” because I had gotten to be pretty friendly with Warren. What we would wind up doing on any given afternoon, I particularly remember summer times for some reason, although I don’t know why because when you’re unemployed 9/10ths of the year, it’s always summer. But, I do remember hanging out with Warren. We would start out typically, I would drive over to his place. It was an apartment, but it was really a house. It didn’t feel like an apartment. It didn’t feel like a unit. It really did feel very homey. He had it all decked out. Plus the fact that we were very, very high added to the intrigue of the season. And it was the end of ’66, now we’re talking almost into ’67… So, what we would do ritualistically, I would come over to Warren’s house. We would really get loaded. Of course, that’s what you did back then. And, if you’re lucky, that’s what you do now. But, back then it was very ritualistic and we would literally sit and see how stoned we could get. And I’m not talking about any serious drugs. I’m just talking about pot. We would do pot, and we would do acid. We did do acid. We did a lot of it, in fact. And Warren’s place was conveniently located within walking distance of many, many Hollywood landmarks. Whereas I had lived in the hills and it was pretty impossible for me to get anywhere. I also at the time was just about to be married, so my whole life was just in permanent flux and my only stability came from hanging out with Warren. Well, that ought to tell you something! So, I wasn’t stable at all, and neither was he. We would drink red wine in the afternoon, we would take acid, we would smoke bongs, and then we would start walking. We’d walk down to Sunset Blvd. and we’d hang out, and this is the stupidest thing… I have no idea what drew us to this place… but we wound up using as a hang out Pioneer Chicken on Sunset Blvd. which is a notorious bad fast food place that caters pretty much to 24 hour biker, hooker and dealer servicing. And, it did then. But, I believe that either we didn’t care, or we were just too high to notice. We would spend hours and hours and hours literally just hanging in front of Pioneer Chicken. We wouldn’t be eating. We would literally just be hanging. We would meet friends, we would stake out a table, we would have drinks. I don’t believe they were bottled waters at the time. They were probably just sodas or bodas of wine or whatever we could take with us. And we kind of made fun of the people and we would hook up with people, sometimes, while we were there, and we would wind up going over to their places and continuing the trip with them. But, we were always loaded, we spent almost an entire season doing it.